Sophie Moser 0:02
Hey, I'm Sophie.
Sophia Barber 0:04
And I'm Sophia.
Sophie Moser 0:05
And this is the That's Showbiz, Baby! podcast.
Sophia Barber 0:12
Hey, everyone, this is Sophia. So as you all hopefully know, the day this podcast episode comes out is Election Day in the US. We know that this election has brought heightened emotions and anxiety to many people, including myself. We decided to post an episode today, because it's such a stressful day of waiting and anticipation. And we would love to be able to provide some sort of escape or distraction to anyone looking for one today. So maybe you could listen to this in line at the polls to help pass the time, or just use it to take your mind off of what's happening for a moment. We also want to use today to talk about why voting and keeping up to date with local and national policy is important in regards to the music industry. So we hope you all can find some comfort and joy in the episode today. And we also hope you all voted or are going to vote if you're able to. We're sending lots of love.
Sophie Moser 1:03
So today, we wanted to start out with kind of a lighthearted segment. Um, and we're gonna give some takes on campaign songs from the past. So Sophia and I have each brought two presidential campaign songs from- like long ago, and we are going to give some info and some takes on the songs. So I'm gonna kick us off with "We The People" by Billy Ray Cyrus. This was a campaign song for George W. Bush in 2000. And the story for this one is kind of funny. So Billy Ray was short on cash, apparently. So he wrote the song. He intended it to be used in a presidential campaign, but not by any candidate in particular. So he he just wrote it and was like, this is a presidential song. And so then he pitched it to both George W. Bush and Al Gore in the 2000 election. And so George Bush or George W. Bush ended up using it. So we can play a little clip to get a taste.
Audio 2:08
*Clip of "We The People" by Billy Ray Cyrus
Sophie Moser 2:27
All right. So where to even start? First of all, I really do recommend watching the music video that goes along with the song because I think it really just sells it. Um, it has like, clips. I mean, my personal favorite is a clip of a dentist, like literally working in someone's mouth as the song is going on. But I mean, all things considered kind of a bop like it's very high energy, but the lyrics just make me laugh, like, just talking about like truckers and farmers like it is very, you know, plays to those like classic America values. But you know, it just kind of funny, you can't really take it too seriously. But the music itself, kind of a country bop. Kind of gets you going, kinda hype.
Sophia Barber 3:20
Yeah, they call Billy Ray Cyrus a one hit wonder. And I would disagree because the song is a banger, and I will be listening to it in the future. So good job Billy Ray, thank you for this anthem.
Sophie Moser 3:33
Facts. It's, it's a great one. And I really do mean it. Like, please go watch the music video. I think you'll enjoy it. And it's, you know, it's it's worth the experience.
Sophia Barber 3:46
All right. So I'm going to take us to the future, well, to the past, but- to 2008 that's where we're going. And we're going to John McCain, he went through a lot of campaign songs, because he kept using them without permission, and then the bands would send him a cease and desist. And this is what happened when he tried to make take a chance on me by ABBA, his campaign song. So let's take a listen. And then we'll talk about it.
Audio 4:16
*Clip of "Take A Chance On Me" by ABBA*
Sophia Barber 4:28
Yeah, so I just really think it's funny as a campaign song, especially with the lyrics. Like if you change your mind, I'm the first in line like I'm still free. Take a chance on me. It just feels so desperate. And like literally begging people to elect him. And it's kind of sad, but I guess, you know, it plays into the underdog narrative that I guess he was trying to go for that a lot of people like so, you know- and then he also he's apparently a huge ABBA fan. And he, like publicly said that he wondered why it was considered uncool to like the band ABBA. And then they sent him a cease and desist letter, and he was not able to use the song anymore.
Sophie Moser 5:27
*laughs*
Sophia Barber 5:27
So that's John McCain.
Sophie Moser 5:29
That is so funny. That's funny, too, that he like went through a lot of songs and just like didn't get permission to use them.
Sophia Barber 5:36
Yeah.
Sophie Moser 5:37
Like you would think that would be like, like you'd think to do that. I feel like.
Sophia Barber 5:43
Yeah, you would hope.
Sophie Moser 5:45
Anyways, throwing it kind of way back. My next song is "High Hopes" by Frank Sinatra. And this was JFK's campaign song in 1960. So Frank Sinatra was actually such a big fan of JFK that he rewrote the words to his 1959 hit song "High Hopes" So, it was a song on its own. And he rewrote it. He rewrote a version just for JFK. So we can take a listen.
Audio 6:22
*Clip of "High Hopes" (JFK Campaign Version) by Frank Sinatra*
Sophie Moser 6:45
Anyways, I mean, honestly, this song is kind of like- it's such a good song. Like it is a banger. Like it's so fun. I do kind of like when I listen to it, I feel like it would be in a musical. Like, it's very, like jazz hands. Like, let's do a dance routine. But like, I'm kind of here for it. It's kind of fun. And definitely a very, like, celebration, pump up song, which is fun.
Sophia Barber 7:13
Yeah, and JFK was like one of the first presidential candidates when television was a thing. And that apparently, like helped him- according to my grandma. It helped him get elected because he was so handsome and he got to be on TV. And then he has this like, banger of a song. Like, it's no wonder he won.
Sophie Moser 7:32
I mean what can you say to that, you know. Also, I love that you called in your grandma- like expert witnesses here on this podcast, only.
Sophia Barber 7:42
My grandma, I think she has a crush, or she had a crush on JFK and I support.
Sophie Moser 7:47
Honestly, Yeah, like, like who wouldn't? Okay, moving on.
Sophia Barber 7:53
Moving on. So, I have another kind of funny one. In 1992, a candidate who I just learned about Henry Ross Perot was an American big- business magnate, billionaire and philanthropist who ran for president as an independent and then again in 1996 as a member of the Reform Party. But in 1992 his campaign song was the song "Crazy" by Patsy Cline. So Sophie, can you play a clip?
Audio 8:27
*Clip of "Crazy" by Patsy Cline*
Sophia Barber 8:54
So I just think this is a really weird choice. I'm a huge Patsy Cline fan. I used to have her CD that I would listen to in my car.
Sophie Moser 9:04
Oh, I love that.
Sophia Barber 9:07
So I love the song. It just seems really weird for a presidential campaign. It's really slow. It's about being hopelessly in love with someone. It's super off topic about politics and America. It's not like a hype song like any of the others. And his explanation is that when he announced his candidacy, he said that the song suited him perfectly. He said his opponents had dismissed him as a quote crackpot. And also said, while we're on the crazy theme, I've got a theme song for my campaign. So he, I guess was self aware that people thought he was crazy. And so he just really embraced it and made this his campaign song. He did lose. Which- shocker there.
Sophie Moser 9:51
Yeah, I I feel like he might not have listened to the song. Like I feel like maybe he was like, oh, crazy. That's a great title that describes me perfectly, and then never like played it. And then he was committed. And maybe it's just didn't go well for him from there. Because I don't really know. Otherwise, like why he would pick that.
Sophia Barber 10:15
Unsure, but you know if you're out there, I think he's not he was really old. So rest in peace maybe I don't know, but interesting choices.
Sophie Moser 10:28
Love that. Well, anyways moving on to something a bit more serious we wanted to talk about some kind of like policy and just ways that politics and music are intersecting right now. So specifically talking about kind of the struggle about the idea of being an independent contractor in California. And then just artists and venue relief proposals, kind of as a whole. So I'm going to kick us off with some research on this independent contractor law that has kind of been- had some buzz about it in California. So it's actually- what all the talk has been about is the California Assembly Bill Five, or called AB5, which is what I'm going to refer to as, was passed in September of 2019. And then went into effect in January of 2020. So this bill got a ton of heat because it was targeted at the gig economy. So it required any companies that hire independent contractors to kind of reclassify them as employees. So this bill is actually generally- generally targeted at rideshare apps like Uber and Lyft. And they aim to make drivers for these transportation services employees so that they could enjoy employee benefits. And the law kind of establishes a strict three prong test that holds companies to a much higher standard of who can be considered an independent contractor. And so it's really strict. And the three criteria are that one, the worker is free to perform services without the control or direction of the company. Two, the worker is performing work tasks that are outside the usual course of the company's business activities. And then three, the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation or business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed. So a lot of kind of like legal jargon there. But basically, the point is that it establishes a really strict test of who can be considered an independent contractor. And while this was geared towards drivers for rideshare apps, it applied to literally any independent contractor out there pretty much. And so I mean, on the bright side, this law would mean that the newly reclassified- reclassified employees would be entitled to like benefits such as minimum wage, expense reimbursements, rest breaks, kind of just your general set of benefits that are given to employees under California law, that aren't guaranteed to independent contractors. However, then on the flip side, is that employees now are required to adhere to his very rigid and strict working schedule. You don't have the flexibility that being an independent contractor provides, but you're kind of taking on an employee role. So this law does eliminate a lot of flexibility that independent contractors maintain. And actually, interestingly enough, before COVID, I got to speak to one of my Lyft drivers about this. And I like don't remember exactly what he said. But basically, he was explaining that under AB5, drivers would be scheduled to certain shifts of driving hours and then expected to complete each shift. And then more than I believe he said, three missed or incomplete shifts would result in the driver potentially being fired from the company. So you really lose a lot of control, especially when looking specifically at kind of the rideshare realm. So kind of, you know, in an area where there's a lot of people driving kind of on the side to pick up cash, who want to choose their own schedule, and are maybe even working a second job, that doesn't quite work so well. So that's kind of the interesting flip side of it. Um, and so actually, by eliminating that flexibility, a lot of current drivers would maybe not even be able to keep up with the job and continue working in the rideshare business. So that's kind of interesting, just examining it from a perspective of the rideshare perspective, which is what it was kind of geared to address from the beginning.
But anyways, in relation to the music industry, which is what we all really care about. AB5 also poses a huge threat in the music industry, to this gig economy that's so central, especially in Los Angeles. So the original law is so broad that even independent musicians who are hiring other individuals, so think like if you're an artist you want to hire a producer to work with or a songwriter or even like an instrumentalist to record for you. Um, you would be considered an employer under that law. And then you would have to provide all of those benefits that an employer in California would have to provide. So you know, like the rest time, the like health insurance, like minimum wage, whatever, that kind of thing. So, obviously, that's like very out of the question for a lot of independent musicians, and also really impractic- impractical when it comes to the music industry. Because independent musicians and just other service providers are normally working on a lot of varied, unique and flexible projects, you're not really working on the same schedule, or working necessarily on, you know, under one person, or with one type of medium per se. So yeah, it definitely doesn't work out well for the musicians and professionals who are used to working by the gig. So either if you're the one kind of hiring people to come in as your independent contractor, or if you're the independent contractor coming in, doesn't work out great there either. Because then any musician who say, is like playing a single set at a club, or you know, recording one session for a friend's album, they would have to be reclassified as an employee. And so they again, kind of similar to the rideshare thing, would risk losing all of the flexibility, that normally would be a part of their job, and kind of what, you know, a lot of musicians or other service providers, what their schedule revolves around. So definitely a lot going on. And even flipping it back to the employer side, any employers who hire single independent contractors here and there, so think like a bar hiring musician to come in and play, you know, for like, a weekly thing, or bi weekly, they have like a music night, they would have to be an employer, and then that's not really reasonable for them like to have, you know, two- two musicians say in a month, to have to be an employer and provide all those things and not treat the musician like an independent contractor. Well, you know, in most cases, the bar would just be like, Hey, I'm not doing that anymore. Like, I just won't do it. Because that's, you know, too many, too many hoops to jump through. So this act really does threaten to shut down the entire like, flexible, gig based music industry in California, by preventing freelance workers and musicians or professionals who are used to performing services here and there from doing that. And actually, back when news of this act came out, originally, Sophia and I, our professor predicted that without an exemption for music industry workers, the gig industry would leave LA and move to Nashville. Should this act go through. So yeah, obviously, just on its head, a huge hit for musicians and other independent contractors that would, you know, maybe even force a lot out of the industry.
Sophia Barber 17:45
Yeah, when it was first passed, without the music exemption, we weren't definitely hearing a lot of people, are professors, just like online discourse, of people that were like, well, the only reason I'm in LA is to do music. It's way too expensive if then doing music as an independent contractor is not possible. So they were going to move to Atlanta, Nashville, even New York, like just anywhere else. And LA would lose, just with this one bill, LA would probably lose that entire thing for film, too, in addition to music.
Sophie Moser 18:19
Yeah, totally. I mean, it does go, you know, into other creative professions. I think you bring up a good point, like, even thinking, you know, freelance writers, or freelance photographers, or, um, a lot of the creative industries revolve around the flexibility and kind of this idea of the- being, you know, being able to be an independent contractor. So, as you kind of mentioned, thankfully, an alarm kind of was sounded about just how bad AB5 could be for the music industry. And so an exemption was passed this past September 4th of 2020. So, the bill now exempts certain types of workers from being reclassified as employees. And this includes and is not limited to certain workers in the music industry, musicians performing for single live performances, individual performance artists presenting original creative work, insurance industry workers who provide underwriting, inspections, and other services, and consulting service providers. So definitely, that addresses kind of a large group of people that were previously concerned about AB5 and especially the threats that it posed for the music industry. So it was nice that this exemption really did acknowledge that the music industry is based on a lot of flexible, one time services or performances, and it does exempt music industry workers from the really stringent, like three prong test under AB5. So that's really great. And yeah, like I said, this also protects like freelance writers, photographers, people in the film industry, a lot of creative workers. And, there is still a test to determine if you fall in the criteria. Under this new exemption, it's called the burello test. And basically, it just considers whether you- like, the entity receiving the service has the right to control the completion of that service. Again, it gets a little complex. And I'm sure there'll be some legal battles about just exactly what that means and how that translates into real life. But basically, this exemption is really great news. And it offers a lot of needed leniency and protection for the music industry. And the really cool thing about it is that there definitely were a lot of industry artists and professionals mobilizing to spread word about this cause. So it's awesome to see their work paying off, it's a great reminder of, you know, there really is an effect that kind of this grassroots mobilization can create. And obviously it is, you know, there's a lot of creatives out here who were really unifying. And you know, even beyond the creatives, this has gotten pushback in other areas as well, even back to the rideshare thing. So just to see people kind of come together. And then the California government recognizing that, and specifically recognizing the music industry is really cool.
Sophia Barber 21:06
Yeah. Thank God for that, because I don't really want to live in Tennessee.
Sophie Moser 21:11
Yeah, I would like to stay.
Sophia Barber 21:13
Yeah.
Sophie Moser 21:14
Yeah I think it's really interesting to see too, just kind of moving forward there is prop 22, which I don't know- has kind of been talked about, and it's actually on the ballot for November 3rd. So today, when this episode is going up, and that is specifically relating to Lyft and Uber, which I think is kind of funny is an exemption proposed for those things, which really is kind of what the act aimed to work on, like to address in the beginning. So I don't really, I don't know, I feel like if this exemption pass- passes, it's like, there's no point of the bill. But basically, this would also exclude app based transportation and delivery services from AB5. And the last poll I could find about it was really inconclusive. So it'll be interesting to see what happens, definitely your votes matter. But it's really interesting, I think. I did a little bit of research into just what Lyft and Uber drivers were saying about that, in particular. And it was actually very mixed with a lot of people more supportive of remaining as independent contractors, just so that they could maintain the flexibility and autonomy of just kind of deciding what and when they wanted to do, but definitely mixed. And I think Lyft and Uber did threaten to pull out of California completely if prop 22 is not passed. So that obviously adds a lot of pressure. And just kind of going back to the whole political thing. It will be very interesting to see how that all plays out.
Sophia Barber 22:38
Yeah, I guess, tomorrow after this episode, or in the next couple of weeks, we'll find out.
Sophie Moser 22:43
Yeah, we'll see what's gonna happen with that one.
Sophia Barber 22:46
So I'm gonna take it in kind of a different direction. And I'm going to go more on a federal level, about the impacts of COVID on the music industry and musicians and venues. So a lot of its going to be talking about, specifically relief for people that were out of work because the entertainment industry has been completely shut down. So in late March of 2020, when things were first shutting down, and like all musicians were losing their income, because tours and shows were getting cancelled. And a lot of them had no idea what to do because they didn't qualify for unemployment benefits either because they're, they were an independent contractor or a sole proprietor or they had unstable income, it really just depended, but a lot of them weren't qualifying for these unemployment benefits. And when the first federal stimulus package was first being discussed, many people who worked as independent contractors in the music industry were ineligible for the proposed relief. However, similarly to the AB5 thing, music advocacy groups, such as the Songwriters of North America, and the National Music Publishers Association, fought to include language in the package to include people who are self employed, sole proprietors, and independent contractors. So now, in October, early November of 2020, they received, hopefully, money from the first stimulus package, but the next one is in deadlock at the federal level. So the Senate and the House just can't agree and the President is giving a hard time. So musicians are having to make up their lost income, either by finding another job or taking out loans if they can, getting money from fans who attend their live stream or buy their merch. And there are also a lot of fundraisers by nonprofits who are fundraising for them. And musicians and roadies and songwriters are really scrounging to apply for relief and find stuff, but it's very difficult, because there's not really that much help on the governmental level. So unfortunately, there's kind of no end game in sight, especially for smaller musicians. Hopefully after this election season, it will be more clear whether or not there will be a stimulus. Hopefully there will be. But unfortunately, I think it's the awful reality that a lot of musicians, songwriters, roadies, the valuable workers that we rely on in the music industry might be lost forever after this to go to more stable jobs. Or maybe they'll come back eventually, hopefully, we'll see. So, we say this all the time but please do support your favorite artists in any way you're able to, and pay attention when you're voting, if you can vote, to what's happening and how it affects the music industry and the artists that you love, or maybe if you're an artist yourself.
Now, I'm going to talk about venue relief, which is a little more hopeful. But, um, in June, a study conducted by the National Association of Independent Venues, or NIVA, reported that 90% of independent venue owners, promoters, and bookers said that they would have to close permanently within the next few months if they didn't get an infusion of targeted government funding. So initially, under the first stimulus package, venues could apply for the Paycheck Protection Program, which was a loan that they could apply for from the federal government to keep their employees paid. So a key tenant to that program was loan forgiveness if they spent at least 75% of the loan on payroll expenses. But, for closed venues, and just for venues in general, because not a lot of their expenses are staff related. And they don't necessarily have everyone as employees those loans don't really work. They needed money that they'd be able to spend on their huge mortgage payments, insurance, utilities, really keeping the building running, paying the property taxes, that kind of stuff is really what they needed support for. So a little earlier, the Save Our Stages act was proposed, and it was a bipartisan relief package, heavily backed by Amy Klobu- Klobuchar. And it proposed funding for relief grant packages that independent venues could apply for, and they could use their money for specified expenses such as payroll costs, rent, utilities and personal protective equipment. So it was much more flexible than the PPP loans. And it's a grant so it does not need to be repaid. So small venues and other organizations could apply for and receive up to $12 million grants, and a supplemental grant equal to 50% of what they got initially. So that's a huge change from what was initially proposed. And if this, you know, had passed or will pass in the future, it would be a huge relief to these independent venues. It has not passed on its own. But it was added to the Heroes Act, which was passed by the House of Representatives in early October by a small margin of about seven votes. The Heroes Act not only included parts of the Save Our Stages Act, but also relief for schools and frontline workers and like the- that's why it's called the heroes act, because it's people still working or people who lost their jobs. However, when it got sent to the Senate, they declared it dead on arrival, saying that it was unrealistic to spend such a large- a large amount of money on relief. The proposed heroes act was a $3 trillion spend. So the senate said no way. And then Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell suggested a different proposal called the Health, Economics Assistance, Liability Protection, and Schools Act or the HEALS act. And it's $1 trillion of spending. So from what I could tell, this doesn't seem to include direct leaf- Direct Relief grants for venues and small businesses, but instead, modifies and expands the PPP loans so that businesses can spend up to 40% of the loan on non-payroll expenses rather than 25%. But generally, it's much less helpful than the Heroes act. So we will see what happens, but it's really not looking good. And at this point, it's probably not going to happen until after the results of the election come through, especially the senate elections, because they're the ones that are kind of holding up this bipartisan relief bill for- relief bill for small venues.
Sophie Moser 29:39
It's definitely really interesting to hear about all of the interests that are kind of behind it and just about how moving at the federal level can be so difficult. I mean, it's not an easy thing to just get things through, especially, you know, things that require a lot of money, but it is really sad to think about, you know, that not happening or just in general, what's going on. I think, when I was kind of researching stuff for this episode, I happened upon a little article about just Live Nation and how they had 55,000 events in 2020 that were up that they were selling tickets for. And obviously, you know, after March, I think every, you know, every single one of those was canceled and has to be refunded, that was $2 billion worth of ticket sales. So it's really crazy to think about that. And like the 90% number you gave of independent venues who are saying they're probably going to have to close without government relief, things like that, even just thinking through the festival business and how that is going to be so late to come back. And, um I couldn't quote the statistic exactly, but I know I've seen that out to just that, without festivals, and you know, if festivals are being pushed until late 2021, a lot of them are going to go bankrupt and never come back. And that was even like Coachella was on that list. So it's really interesting and scary to think about the impact that this can have specifically on the music industry, and then in live music as well.
Sophia Barber 31:09
Yeah, so the consequences of not having relief, as Sophie touched on, is just a mass loss of jobs and businesses for people across the country. People who get their work seasonally at festivals, work in venues, parking attendants at venues, people who run the ticket booth, people who own the venues, people who play in them. The music industry, and live specifically, employs so many people and generates so much revenue, that it's going to be a huge impact, a negative impact on our country to be honest, from my point of view, if this doesn't pass. It also means that historical or just meaningful venues all across the country will have to shudder their doors, which is incredibly unfortunate. I know, I've heard venues that I love in Denver, where I'm from and Los Angeles, really struggling and throwing fundraisers together, and it breaks my heart. And it also means, which is something I didn't necessarily think about,` that pretty much all venues and concerts that will be left if this 90% number comes true, will either be controlled by AEG or Live Nation. So we can kind of say goodbye to any events or concerts that don't fit into what these huge corporations like or are willing to put on. This probably means that it would also be way harder to produce an independent show or a passion project because you would have to go through Live nation or AEG, rather than just a person who owns a venue. And so that's kind of scary to think about where these two mega corporations could just run live concerts at this point. So that is a consequence I didn't think about, and I don't- I hope doesn't happen.
Sophie Moser 32:56
Yeah, totally. I mean, it does add up when you're thinking about that, because I think you know, when they were calculating that 90% number they said pretty much the only ones that are going to survive- like they are the venues controlled by AEG and Live Nation and even some of those are going to go through financial difficulty and probably close. So you know, that is kind of sad. And it does- I don't know something I think about too is you know if there's 90% less venues well what happens to the artists who are going to want to play shows when shows come back, there's just not going to be a lot of availability like you talked about.
Sophia Barber 33:30
Yeah, especially because AEG and Live Nation focus on the huge acts, pretty much, unless you know Golden Voice does some smaller stuff for sure. But those little tiny venues that hold 50 people where someone's band can play might not be a possibility anymore, which is awful. So we will have a link to the National Independent Venues Association's fundraiser called Save Our Stages in the episode description. Please go check out their site and donate or buy merch if you can. If you don't want to go through them, please just check out your artists that you love. Make sure they're doing okay, see if there's any way you can help if you're able to. NIVA has videos of performances from their Save Our Stages festival with artists like Miley Cyrus, Portugal The Man, Nathaniel Rateliff, shout out to my Colorado buddy, and YG playing at some of our favorite independent venues across the nation. So I know I watched a bunch of them. It's really cool to be able to see inside these beautiful venues. The videos are all free. They're on YouTube, you can just go watch and you can donate to their Save Our Stages fundraiser right from YouTube or from their website. So we will leave that link in the description.
Sophie Moser 34:47
Anyways, that's all we have for today. And I hope you guys can learn something new and also have just a little bit of entertainment and also education to take your mind off of what else is happening on this election day. And, as always, stay safe. We love you.
Sophia Barber 35:05
Bye everyone.
Thank you all for listening. You can find us on Instagram at Sophia.productions and please go rate, download, and follow wherever you get your podcasts.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai